S2_EP_36 Nasal vs. Mouth Breathing During Intense Exercise

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

nasal breathing, nasal, exercise, max, breathing, people, vo, performance, subjects, maximal, study, test, intense exercise, heart rate, rower, mouth, point, restricted, data, nose

SPEAKERS

Dr. Mike T Nelson

Dr. Mike T Nelson  00:01

Hey, it’s Dr. Nelson here back with another edition of the flex diet, podcast for all things to increase muscle performance all without destroying your health in the process today, it’s gonna be just me, me, I’m doing a little diatribe all about nasal breathing. Is that useful? Is it not useful? So it’s a bunch of bunk? Should you do it? Should you consider not doing it? What does some of the research say? It appears everyone has an opinion on this, some people are for it like 100% other people think it’s the dumbest idea they’ve ever heard of. So we’re gonna dive into that a little bit. And then keep it on the relatively shorter side, but not over short. And today, the podcast is brought to you by the flex diet certification. If you want to learn eight different interventions for recovery, from exercise, primarily focused on nutrition, and then sleep and neat and fasting, how much protein Do you need to carbohydrates, fat and exercise, go to flex diet.com fxdt.com. And you’ll be able to get on to the waitlist there for the next time that it opens. And some of the topics today will also be covered in the physiologic flexibility certification, that will open up again, if you’re on the waitlist for the flex diet, that puts you on the newsletter. And so you will get information about that also. So hopping right into the topic today, of nasal versus mouth breathing, for intense exercise. So how I got into this was about four or so years ago, now, I was looking around for different ways with some of the CrossFit athletes I was working with that I could make exercise feel hard, but they would not completely destroy themselves. So when I was doing more in person training here, I got pretty good at setting up circuits for new people who wanted to just be destroyed. having them do something that was very hard, but mechanically was not that damaging. So we would purposely kind of reduce he centric exercise, right, that lowering phase of exercise, we would do a lot of car pushes reverse sled drags, I had a 400 pound tire, they would hit with a sledgehammer. Maybe some other movements that are primarily concentrate only. And we would set them up in a little bit of a strong man medley. And they would go through and do that. It was very hard and difficult, right, you can play with rest periods, distances, weights, etc. And they would feel that it was very hard. But they weren’t as mechanically destroyed. The next day. I had previous to this a neighbor at the time, I had the 400 pound tire out and was doing some tire flips for it at the time, I was preparing for a novice strongman competition here locally. And he kept bugging me all the time that he wanted to flip the tire. And he said he’s done a lot of exercise. But I was super nervous because I didn’t want him to get injured. And then I’m like, if he’s not used to that kind of load, even though there’s not a ton of E centric movement in the tire, but once you get it up to around 45 degrees, if you’re not real fluid in your form, and you have to kind of get under it and it can kind of try to come back. Obviously your biceps are at a huge risk there depending on where you put your hands through what it wants to curl and deadlift, everything. And eventually I said okay, you can you can try it out because he was kind of hell bent on doing it anyway. So we helped him with it walked him through the steps, and he’d never quite got it. I helped him with it after about 10 minutes of him trying and he did get it over once, which was good. And then he disappeared, attends to him at all after that. And finally about the third day I’m starting to get worried. I’m like, oh god, what happened to him? Did he get injured? So I went over to his house and he said that he was so sore from head to toes that he didn’t really make it off the couch for like three days. So I’m also guessing he probably lied to me about how much exercise and preparedness he had done in the past to So fast forward backwards in time to some CrossFit athletes I was working with online.

05:05

The

Dr. Mike T Nelson  05:07

thing that they always went to because of their culture, especially then although it’s better now was feeling like the best workout or training session or one or metcon, or whatever words you want to use for it was the one that left them just absolutely brutalized. And they had to just kind of crawl out of the gym. And as you know, from reading my stuff, and listening to this podcast, I’m a huge fan of you stress more than distress, you stress rest, you can recover from in a relatively reasonable amount of time. And so they were very used to high amounts of distress. And you can get better at doing that your body will always adapt. But your risks of injury go up. And what I find is people tend to plateau at some point. And just applying more effort at that point is not going to get them through that plateau. It’s like rarely did try harder ever solve anything in your life? Yes, you need to apply effort. But if trying harder, solved everything. Yeah, everything looked quite different. So I had them do nasal breathing for a five k on the concept to rower. My thought was at the time, I just knew from playing around with it myself that if we restrict airflow, it’s going to feel a lot harder. And the thing I had the hardest time getting them to do was some lower intensity. You know, if you look in the literature, this speak, you know, zone two, zone three, right, that’s just a marker for intensity. They just wouldn’t do it. So I would require them to put on a heart rate strap and sink their phone trying to get heart rate data. And the heart rate strap will get lost or eaten by the dog or thrown in the dryer or run over by the car, who knows, it would disappear within a couple days. And then no more data. I could watch the performance. But I didn’t know much about the level of effort it took to get that performance. And when I rare chances I would get videos from them. It was more like a spasm monkey on the rower and they were still doing very high intensity work. And then they would start to plateau again. So I said okay, you’re only gonna breathe through your nose, breathe in through your nose, breathe out through your nose. Yes, it’s gonna suck. Yes, it’s gonna feel very hard. Let me know how it goes. I was able to get off for most of them heart rate data to start. So these are pretty, you know, pretty good level athletes of five k with nasal breathing only several of them but top out at, you know, 105 110 maybe 115 maximum beats per minute for heart rate. But what’s interesting is that they all reported that it felt ridiculously hard. But I achieved my thing of capping the amount of work that we’re doing on performance. It felt good to them because they were used to driving hard and making everything hard. So it was kind of a win win. Around this time a little bit after that. I my buddy Coach Cal Dietz here, University of Minnesota, had some aerobic circuits that he released that I saw with the nasal breathing only. So I had lots of long chats with him about it too. And then fast forward a few years after that, or along that time period, like people from the art of breath at the time, Rob Wilson, Brian Mackenzie retired, started talking more about nasal breathing. And now fast forward to modern day. James nesters book breathe. It’s a really good book on the topic that’s very well, I would say written and has references and backed up in it. You can listen to podcasts I did with him here. Rob Wilson from the art of breath, we did a podcast with him also. So check both of those out we’ll put links there below. So nasal breathing now is all the rage. And like most things in fitness, it’s gone from one extreme to the next. Have no one really talked about it much. Although you can find instances where coaches and athletes have been using it for quite some time to now it’s the latest and greatest thing ever. Everybody needs to nasal breathe 100% of the time, everyone is over breathing. We need to get athletes down to breathing six or eight breaths per minute during the rest. I’ll have more on that at the end which I think is crazy. Because the fitness world we can’t seem to have any form of moderation and we tend not to look at available data. So if we do a brief rundown of the mechanisms proposed nasal breathing, is it likely to be better for intense exercise? Now notice I said intense exercise on purpose. I did not say maximum All Out exercise, because we have to keep in mind, what is the context of what we’re talking about. So if we’re talking about lower to moderate intensity exercise where you can apply the old school talk test, could you run or be on a rower or bike? and have a conversation with someone? Or are we talking about, you know, like your ball sack on fire and go as hard as you possibly can to get the highest output for a short period of time. So again, we have to make sure we were very clear about what level of exercise are we talking about. Within that, then that brings up the discussion of what is a limiter for your performance during said exercise, I would say for lower level intensity exercise, so not maximal exercise, which again, I know is very vague, it’s probably not going to be airflow, unless you are just completely out of shape. It’s unlikely to be airflow related, meaning, if you can just get air in and your normal healthy person, your body is working the way it should you do not have a lot of pathologies, we probably don’t need to worry a whole lot about it. Where it gets more interesting is as we scale up to intense and maximal exercise. So some of the things that may affect maximal exercise performance, right, so a couple things, you’ve got the muscle and the blood have to buffer, high amounts of hydrogen ions. And so the main fuel at that point is going to be lactate. Right? You’ve probably heard of lactic acid. And that is a little bit of a misnomer. It’s actually lactate that hydrogen ions that show up. So lactic acid is extremely short lived, it is a real thing. But as the lactate, which gets used as a high energy fuel, and then as the hydrogen ions that build up, and you’re literally dumping acid into the muscle and into the blood. So in the physiologic flexibility cert, we go into a lot more detail about that. So your body has to buffer them right in the muscle, the primary buffer is intramuscular carnosine. And that can be improved a little bit within single digits with the supplement beta alanine, beta alanine binds to El histamine to form intramuscular carnosine. That helps buffer some of those hydrogen ions. The blood also has to buffer some of those sodium bicarbonate may help a little bit with that. But you also run the risk of taking too much and having disaster pants. So there’s a pro and a con to that. We also have exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide at the muscle level. Right. And so that can be changed by a whole host of factors. Even just changing pH slightly will change those mechanisms. We can have muscle fatigue, and this includes the local working muscles. This includes also the diaphragm, which is a muscle, it’s a little bit different composition, but it’s still a muscle. Let’s go to also include cardiac tissue, the heart, right because the heart is obviously a muscle Are you getting enough blood flow and in keeping up your what’s called mean systemic filling pressure to exchange everything that you need to? We know from studies on dehydration, right? So if we reduce that mean systemic filling pressure, we know that that will impair performance. And then you’ve got all the neurologic factors that are all tied in and intertwined with all of it, right from Dr. Tim Noakes, central governor hypothesis, and we could spend another couple hours and entire classes and thesis and research all on just different elements of fatigue. If you want a good, I would say relatively easy to read that has a lot of really good stories in it. Check out Alex Hutchinson’s book endure. I really enjoyed it. That’s a couple years old now but I say it’s still very up to date, highly recommend that. So if we look at what’s going on now related to individuals, and how they would work for breathing.

14:19

Alright, so

Dr. Mike T Nelson 14:20

what does some of the research say about this? The Pro and the con is there’s not a ton of research that has looked at this. This is from they lay and I’ll have all these references in the article 1983 quote, The vast majority of individuals appear to breathe through their mouth during intensive exercise. If you’ve ever walked at anyone on the treadmills in the gym, or most intense exercise, I would say observationally that is true. Next 119 78 from Sabine most individuals will spontaneously switch from predominantly nasal breathing to predominantly oral breathing or nasal breathing at some point during a graded exercise test, usually with a ventilation rate of approximately 40 liters per minute as the upper threshold for nasal restricted breathing. So some data showing that what is that switch point from McComb 2017, they looked at nazli restricted versus orally restricted and what they call oral nasal breathing in normal subjects. And they concluded that healthy individuals can breathe entirely nazli at the lower levels of work necessary to improve aerobic fitness in healthy normal populations without any specific adaptation to the process. So that’s good data to show that if you’re a healthy person, you can nasal read 100% of the time, and you will still get improvement in aerobic fitness. Now, the caveat to that is that you are also probably very untrained for looking at normal populations. And this may not necessarily apply in higher level athletes. So for the average person who has not done a lot of cardiovascular or aerobic training, nasal breathing, I think can be good and is probably my preferred way to go. Now again, it gets tricky when we’re looking at intense exercise. Another study from that same lab, this is recinto 2017. Examine the effect of nasal breathing on maximal anaerobic work in active healthy students using a Wingate protocol and found no reduction in peak work that was achieved. So anaerobic work, we can debate later if that’s the best term, but it’s classically used. So higher intensity work. Wingate protocol is super fun, not really 20 to 30 seconds of all out exercise as hard as you can. Now the caveat with that study is that was not necessarily in high level athletes. These are active healthy students. So again, if you’re just doing nasal only breathing, and you’re relatively new to even some higher intensity work, I think you can still see some benefit from doing it. But what about Max niza work? And what about if we move into more highly trained people? So the study from Morton 1995. In this particular study, they looked at healthy normal subjects that had them complete maximal aerobic work while breathing in an easily restricted manner demonstrated a significant reduction in both vo two max and the peak work accomplished in the nasal breathing condition. And compared to oral or oral nasal conditions. So again, with this, they’re looking at healthy normal subjects. They had them do maximal aerobic work, which is classically measured in the lab by a vo two max. So volume of oxygen that’s maximal, that you can exchange. And they did this while looking at them and in easily restricted manner. And they demonstrated a significant reduction in both vo two Max and peak work. So some interesting data there again, normal healthy subjects. So one of the main studies we’re going to talk about here next is a relatively newer ish study. Again, I’ll have links to all of these formal title is effect of nasal versus oral breathing on vo two Max and physiologic economy and recreational runners following an extended period spent using nasal restricted breathing. Because one of the arguments if you are pro nasal breathing, you can say that a lot of the previous work has been in more healthy subjects, I’ll be at recreation or maybe even untrained population. And that most people need an adaptation period to get accustom to nasal breathing back to my original story of showing that the body can get better at adaption to nasal breathing. So this study kind of hits on all of those. right we’re looking at recreational runners so this is not necessarily elite athletes per se, but we’re looking at higher intense exercise vo to max looking at some aspects of economy and they did spend a period of time training via nasal breathing. So this was published in International Journal of Kinesiology and SPORT SCIENCE April 2018. So I would highly recommend you read it. I know some of you will, some of you won’t. But that’s okay. So if we go briefly and look at the breakdown of some of the high points of the study, I will try to bore you with all the details, but you know, at least give you a quick brush over some of them. So the subjects were mixed gender, so they have five males and five females, these were recreational runners. And inclusion criteria require them to have used a nasal restricted breathing pattern during all training and racing for a minimum of six months. So these are people who have six months of self report training using a nasal restricted reading pattern. So when they say nasal restricted breathing pattern, what we’re saying is they are trying to breathe only through their nose. So in and out through the nose. The v2 max of these people is an easy way to look to see how trained they are. So via to Max, classically, it will be reported normalized, sometimes it isn’t. But in this case, we’re looking at milliliters per kg per minute. Males averaged out around 48. And females average around 37. So are those elite level vo two max numbers? Nope. But they are higher than what you would see in most of the population. This does tell us that this population is trained. I wouldn’t say they’re elite level athletes by any stretch of the imagination. But they have been training. What was interesting, too, is that they said okay, how long have you been nasal breathing in years. And in this population, again, super small and five males. So they’ve been doing it on average for almost six years, and the females for almost a little bit over three years, actually. So they’ve been doing this for quite a while, even though the inclusion criteria said that for a minimum of six months. And study design consisted of what’s called the repeated measures, comparison of the 10 participants across two conditions. They have the nasal breathing versus the kind of a mouth are not really restricted breathing at all, they did do what’s called a familiarization trial. So they’ve gotten used to how they were going to be tested, which is great. So you always want to make sure that they are used to the testing procedure. Testing they did was the time from the beginning of the protocol after warmup, and to volitional termination. And this was a graded time to exhaustion exercise test. Again, very classically done in labs. They also did 10 minutes after this max protocol, they completed a six minute steady state protocol. So they did a max test, they have 10 minutes to rest. And then they completed a six minute steady state protocol at 85% of their maximal velocity during the familiarization trial. So they’re getting two data points of more intense exercise. What was interesting is that they use the oral conditioning was created by having the subjects where a swimming nose clip so they could not breathe out of their nose for that one condition. The nasal condition was created by using the same mask rank because they’re hooked up to a metabolic cart. And they taped the mouth shut and they actually use the nasal splint in place to offset the slight pressure effect created by the mask. As you put a mask on someone, it can be kind of restrictive, and it could be closing the nasal passages. So they did look at that and put in a nasal splint to make sure that the nose stays open the entire time. I thought that was a very nice attention to detail. And because we’re using a metabolic cart, they got all sorts of information vo to max ventilation, ventilatory equivalence, yada yada, yada, bunch of technical stuff. So after the testing, so they compared the max graded exercise test, and there was no significant mean difference in graded exercise test. So performance appeared to be pretty similar. We’ll come back to that. And vo two Max was similar and lactic acid as what they called it peak was around the same or lactate. no significant difference in our er or heart rate peak between trials. So are we are is a respiratory exchange ratio that tells us about how much fat versus carbohydrate your body is using. So we did not see any change in fuel usage. And heart rate peak, the max heart rate, so to speak, was about the same between both trials. So that’s good as another follow up marker. Granted, we have a lot of the metabolic cart data so we can look to see what was going on with them. But also to look at heart rate is also useful. will give us an idea that they really hit a peak or not. And if we go down and we look at some of the data, again, you can pull this full study and look at it, the nasal condition versus oral condition, right, almost the same for graded exercise test in terms of time, this is mean plus or minus standard error. So 428 versus 421. So not really any difference on that. If we look at vo two max in liters per minute, so this is not per body weight, but liters per minute, nasal condition was 2.5, oral condition 2.75. Now, if you look at the stats on that significant point, oh five, and this was actually point oh, nine. So I thought that was pretty interesting. The effect size there was considered moderate. So it does appear to be a little bit of a difference in vo to max with it being better under the oral condition. So non nasal breathing condition. So they compared a bunch of other factors there. And, again, if we look at the effectiveness breathing route on the 85% trial, so what I just listed was for the max trial, if you look at this now for the 85%, we do see that the vo two max at steady state for the oral condition was a little bit higher. Now granted, that was right at significance of point oh five, and the effect size there was considered moderate. So again, a little bit more of a hat tip to if you really want to absolutely maximize vo to all outperformance maybe nasal breathing may not be the best. Although you could argue that the difference there is very, very slight, it’s not a big difference. But again, these are pretty high level athletes, but they are definitely not elite athletes. They’re higher than recreational athletes. There are people who are exercising a fair amount. But again, not elite level athletes, which it may be different. And so is there anything else I wanted to cover here? So what they concluded here is that in the study a mean reduction, oxygen consumption during nasal breathing, while running at 85% of velocity at vo two Max was approximately 4%. So you could look at this another way and say that, well, maybe they’re just a little bit more efficient. And this gets into mechanics, what was the speed that they were running, and a bunch of other factors, right, because by looking at vo to max only, races are not necessarily won and lost by vo two max only. Right we want to look at what is the absolute performance of the event, right, because the fastest person is the person that wins. So if we go back up again to that, that we covered, during the graded exercise test the time to exhaustion, the nasal condition was for 28, the oral condition was for 21 there was not a significant difference in there. So you could argue as these authors did, that the lower consumption is an efficiency thing, because we did not see a difference in the performance outcome. Therefore, the nasal breathing athletes, their argument was that they are a little bit more efficient, which they equated to, from the 85% velocity protocol, about 4% more efficient. Now, that could be I think, debated also. But again, numbers not a huge difference between that one of the last parts I thought was super interesting, too, was your argument could be that there and the number of people in the study having 10 subjects is very low. Right. So my ability to see small differences, probably not going to happen. Right? So stats one on one, if I have a low number of people in this study, it’s going to affect my power, which means I’m going to have to have a big effect size to find a difference, which is why some trials where they have a massive high number of n number of subjects, you can find small differences that statistically may be true, but clinically and practically don’t mean anything just could be argued the reverse. We have a small number of subjects. Therefore we would need to find something that has a big effect size in order to see that difference. And they said that consequently our low subject number was achieved after 2.5 years meant recruiting and testing subjects. Right. So if you live in academia at some point You have to do the best with whatever data you have. And you probably can’t keep from running this study ad nauseum for the next four years to try to get a few more subjects. I think if they had started this, maybe now, maybe it would be easier to find people as nasal breathing is becoming more popular. And just checking to see if I missed any other facts I wanted to talk about here. I think that’s pretty good. So in English, the study looked at the difference between nasal breathing and mouth breathing. And these were people who had been training for a long time with nasal breathing. And those subjects with a moderate vo two Max, there was not a huge difference. Now again, the caveat with that is, these are not elite level athletes. And they have been training, using nasal breathing for quite a while, right? The males and the subject study here, almost six years of nasal breeding females over three years, right. So they’ve been doing this for quite a while. Which means that maybe it’s possible for you to do nasal breathing and get to a high percentage of your max. Now, could you reach an all out Max, by nasal breathing only? My gut feeling is probably not, right, because at some point, you’re going to be limited by airflow and even pressures, the amount of air I can bring through small holes in my face, ie my nose, versus the large hole, My mouth is gonna be different. All right, so at some point during maximal exercise, breathing in and out of your mouth, I believe is going to elicit a higher level of performance. Now does that mean nasal breathing is all bunk and you should never use it? Nope. I found that I can do while this is anecdotal for myself and clients do more aerobic work and appear to recover faster, I can do it again within a sooner time period by nasal breathing. However, this is for sub max work. So what I really like is the gear system from Brian Mackenzie, I highly recommend you check out his stuff where you start out lower intensity, nasal and nasal out, how long can you do that, and then maybe you’re increasing the frequency. So you’re breathing in and out of your nose still, but you’re going faster. And then as the intensity of exercise starts kicking up. Now you’re breathing in through your nose and out through your mouth, maybe you’re getting fancy and really trying to focus on the exhale, or focus on the inhale. And then in all out absolute exercise, you’re going to be breathing in and out of your mouth, right, just like the gearbox on your car. So that is my preferred method, I think that is going to be most representative of the literature allows you to do more nasal breathing for lower intensity stuff. Even some of the people that on the outside appear to be 100%, pro nasal breathing like Patrick McEwen, he’s got a great book. He’s got a lot of really good stuff. I don’t agree with everything that he says. But I do agree with the vast majority of the stuff that he has. And he’s even been quoted that when it’s all out race time, and it’s high intensity exercise performance. You’re going to breathe however you can breathe much. I would agree with that. So as we wrap this up here, should you be nasal breathing? I think yes, you should probably train yourself to do that. Especially walking around lower level exercise intensity, sleep. All those times I think are very good to nasal breathe, there is no reason to get an increased amount of airflow through the mouth. And you can go down all sorts of rabbit holes looking at breathing its effects on facial structures. And check out my interview with Dr. Zack couples on that will link to that one here. We talked about that in that podcast. So I think nasal breathing is good. I like the gear system by Brian Mackenzie. So practice nasal, nasal in nice loud, nasal in, mouth out mouth in mouth out for intense exercise when you get to it. A test you can do with your clients is do a moderate longer duration test. I like using the concept to rower because you can get watts and output right away automatically from it. My buddy, Dr. Kenneth Jays got a lot of great stuff on that to do a five k test where they can only breathe in and out through their nose. I do this initially as a baseline with some clients. Not everyone just depends on if they needed it or not. And then look to see what is their wattage, write performance. How long did it take them to complete the five K so 5000 meters. Again, you can do 2000 meters 3004 1000 I like 5000 because it’s definitely more on the aerobic end of the spectrum, lower to moderate intensity, comparatively speaking, and then look at their heart rate. So then I talked to about one of the athletes there, five K, heart rate Max, nasal in and nasal loud only was 110. And then after about 10 weeks of training, we had him training two to three times a week, nasal in nasal out, primarily use the rower, he had better performance, right, Watson went up, time got better. And his max heart rate, he was also able to hit 149 threes able to hit a higher level heart rate, still nasal breathing. When I first started doing this many years ago, my heart rate was very low during a test like 105 181 10. Now several years later, I can hit the low 160s, nasal in nice, loud, and I’m okay. Now again, that’s not a max for me, my max heart rate, last time I measured it was about 176, somewhere around there. So for an all out Max, I’m still gonna breathe mouth in mouth out. But that’s a big difference, right? I’ve been able to expand that range of nasal breathing. And the cool part is it hasn’t cost me performance. Right. Because the end of the day performance is the thing we want to keep an eye on. And my RP has gotten a lot easier. Right when I first did this years ago, 110 nasal breathing in and out, I felt like I was dying. And it felt just horrible. I felt like I couldn’t get enough air. Completely, utterly miserable. Now I don’t get that same sensation to run the low 160s. Low 150. I can do nasal in and out pretty easy right now. So again, I think there is a fair amount of plasticity to the system, we can get better adaptations. Lower Level exercise, I think you will benefit from nasal breathing. However, this does not mean you should nasal breathe 100% of the time for everything. I’m not convinced that everyone is over breathing that we need to get breath rates down to the six to eight minutes. Some people have cited. If you do have data that says someone is reading at six to eight minutes, like from an aura ring, or some other device at rest. And at sleep. I would love to see it. I would also love to see a sleep study to make sure they don’t have some weird apnea. Because that seems ridiculously low to me. I’ve seen some pretty high level athletes. And rarely do I see anything below this is on aura data. I think the lowest I’ve seen so far consistently is like 12 breaths a minute. It might be possible, but I sort of have my doubts.

Dr. Mike T Nelson  37:53

So anyway, that’s my thoughts on nasal breathing for intense exercise. Again, there’s a whole bunch of side topics here. I was sleep

Dr. Mike T Nelson  38:04

mouth taping, and even people who might have some slight pathologies, asthma, things of that nature. Again, for this podcast, we were confined to nasal versus mouth breathing for intense exercise in healthy subjects. So if you want any more on those other topics, leave some comments below here on your favorite podcast app. Thank you so much for listening, really appreciate it. If you really enjoyed this, you can get more info via the physiologic flexibility cert, which right now you can get on the newsletter via the flex diet website, which is flex diet.com fxdt.com you’ll be away there to get on to the waitlist that’ll put you on the daily newsletter. We’ve got lots of great info for you which is totally free. And the next time the flex diet course and the physiologic flexibility course are open. You will be the first people to be notified. So thank you again for listening. Really appreciate this. And leave some comments below. Talk to you soon.